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Old Apr 23, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05   #341
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Originally Posted by blackbird71
Apparently, according to Anet's representative, every "average joe" should be able to afford the 15k armor and other high end items, they claim that that was the point of the update. Whether or not it accomplished this is what is up for debate.
I believe (based on my experience with the in-game reward system) that there is a discrepancy between how Anet and players are viewing high-end content. Judging by the prices of armor and such, I think Anet intended 15k/Obsidian armor to be somewhat of an endgame reward, to be obtained after you've already acquired all the skills/runes for your character. From my experience, it isn't hard at all to pay for 15k armor just by doing Titan quests, Sorrow's Furnace, FoW/UW, etc., assuming that you're not spending money toward skills or other expensive items. It was intended as an advanced goal for someone who has been acquiring money for a while.

Thing is, a lot of players seem to think that 15k armor should be attainable soon after they reach the crafter. I don't know if this issue is the fault of the players (for thinking they "deserve" 15k armor), the fault of Anet (for not giving players the resources needed), or the fault of farmers (for devaluing 15k and giving the appearance that farming is mandatory). I don't really have the knowledge to really answer that.

But I do see a pretty noticeable difference in the way the game was designed and the way people expect it to work, in that issue particularly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleban
1. Right and wrong. GW is not real life, but people put time into it, and expect something out of it. Whether that's enjoyment from PUGing, capping elite skills, hero/henching masters' missions or even FARMING, the concept is a player expends time and effort, and gets something in return. If Player A puts in X amount of effort, and Player B puts in 4x amount of effort, why should Player B receive the same rewards as Player A? That's not fair based on effort expended.
This is true if you base your measurement of "effort" solely on number of monsters killed. I would argue that this is not a useful metric. By that metric, a healing monk expends no effort, because he/she is not killing things. And what about external efforts? Are planning builds and coordinating teams not effort? Effort is not so easily measured as the number of kills a player earns.

Time is a more measurable metric, but ArenaNet has repeatedly stated that Guild Wars was not designed to reward players for time rather than skill.
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3. Playing the game MY way is not work, I enjoy the challenge in farming where and when I choose.
Glad to hear that you enjoy it. But if you truly enjoy what you are doing, then why do you feel that you should be compensated at a rate 8x what other players are earning?
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You know, just the length of these threads and the arguments presented should be a clue to even the most thick that there IS something wrong with the update, telling people to just roll over and accept it kind of defeats the entire point of having a discussion forum.
I dunno about you, but one thing I've learned from Internet discussions is that some people like to make a big deal out of little things. I've been guilty of that many times.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17   #342
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Originally Posted by rohlfinator
or the fault of farmers (for devaluing 15k and giving the appearance that farming is mandatory).
I'll spell it out for you. B-O-T. Not farmers, botters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
But I do see a pretty noticeable difference in the way the game was designed and the way people expect it to work, in that issue particularly.
If perception is reality when it comes to gaming, then who is in the wrong, the players or ANet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
This is true if you base your measurement of "effort" solely on number of monsters killed. I would argue that this is not a useful metric. By that metric, a healing monk expends no effort, because he/she is not killing things. And what about external efforts?
I'm glad you would argue this, but sadly you're wrong. What is the one constant in GW that you CANNOT avoid if you wish to advance your character? Monsters must die, so you can gain experience and skills. A healing monk is a support character, who by their very nature is allowing the ones doing the killing to continue, thereby directly contributing to the kill, and hence their share of party loot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
Are planning builds and coordinating teams not effort? Effort is not so easily measured as the number of kills a player earns.
When it comes to in-game loot, kills ARE the only metric. Planning builds and coordinating efforts facilitates more efficient killing, thereby the loot gain is increased proportionately, giving a direct, concrete reward for those efforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
Time is a more measurable metric, but ArenaNet has repeatedly stated that Guild Wars was not designed to reward players for time rather than skill.
If their actions were in line with their statements, that would be one thing. But introducing titles that are nothing BUT time and grind somewhat contradicts their grand design, does it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
Glad to hear that you enjoy it. But if you truly enjoy what you are doing, then why do you feel that you should be compensated at a rate 8x what other players are earning?
I don't feel I should get 8x what another player earns, I expect to get the rewards commensurate with my kill rate. And if I kill 8 times the amount of monsters another person does, I should get 8 times the loot, period. How can you argue this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
I dunno about you, but one thing I've learned from Internet discussions is that some people like to make a big deal out of little things. I've been guilty of that many times.
So have I. But the funny thing is, changing the loot system of a game after 3 million purchases and two years is a bit more drastic than just another "little thing" like nerfing or buffing skill damage amounts.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31   #343
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Originally Posted by rohlfinator
I believe (based on my experience with the in-game reward system) that there is a discrepancy between how Anet and players are viewing high-end content. Judging by the prices of armor and such, I think Anet intended 15k/Obsidian armor to be somewhat of an endgame reward, to be obtained after you've already acquired all the skills/runes for your character. From my experience, it isn't hard at all to pay for 15k armor just by doing Titan quests, Sorrow's Furnace, FoW/UW, etc., assuming that you're not spending money toward skills or other expensive items. It was intended as an advanced goal for someone who has been acquiring money for a while.
I'd agree with your idea of what the 15k and Obsidian armors should be, insofar as they're not standard equipment and are something that should be obtained later rather than earlier. However, Anet does not seem to agree anymore, for as I mentioned before, Gaile uses the unavailability of these and other "high priced" items to the average player as justification for the changes to the loot system. In reality, it appears that the changes do just the opposite, by pushing these items further out of reach of the average player. This is my complaint, that there is a sense of growing hypocrisy in the information coming from Anet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
Thing is, a lot of players seem to think that 15k armor should be attainable soon after they reach the crafter. I don't know if this issue is the fault of the players (for thinking they "deserve" 15k armor), the fault of Anet (for not giving players the resources needed), or the fault of farmers (for devaluing 15k and giving the appearance that farming is mandatory). I don't really have the knowledge to really answer that.
From my point of view, Anet is the one who is now saying that these items should be more widely available. Farmers have not "given the appearance that farming is mandatory," rather Anet has made it such by placing these high cost fixed price items in the game and not providing alternative means of raising such funds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfinator
But I do see a pretty noticeable difference in the way the game was designed and the way people expect it to work, in that issue particularly.
Granted there are those who expect the game to work differently than it was designed. However, the bigger difference I've been seeing, in this and other issues, is the difference between what Anet originally told us about how the game should work and what they are telling us now.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13   #344
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
So no matter what you do, you will be unable to accumulate as much wealth as pre-nerf, solo or group. Yay fun.
You won't have as much gold, that's right. But gold will be worth more because of deflation.

Quote:
Nothing stops a player from setting their prices.
Supply and demand does. If an item is priced higher than a fair number of people are willing to pay, it will drop in price.

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BUT due to the relative value of gold going up, its actually increased in price!
Why would the gold deflation outstrip the cost drop? The cost is dropping only because of gold deflation. What is the compensating factor that will push it up to cost more? If anything I'd suggest it will drop further with so many HM farmers piling rares up.

Quote:
But unless ANet ALSO reduces the value of fixed price items like armor (and MAKES insignias fixed already) and heck even id/salvage kits and especially skills, the average player will quickly see his or her gold vanish.
The average player solo farms any significant amount? I guess alot of people in this thread believe that actually... I suppose only Anet has the statistics to know how absurd that thought is. The change would indeed be a waste if that were true, juggling the economy around to just bring a few % of sods up instead of pulling down a wealthier elite. I guess I only know for sure that players who regularly solo-farm for gold are an extremely small minority in my largeish PvE alliance, of course there are farming guilds out there, but not as many as people just playing through. This is an impasse if you disagree though, I'm not sure where we can get reliable statistics on the matter.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30   #345
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
I guess I only know for sure that players who regularly solo-farm for gold are an extremely small minority in my largeish PvE alliance, of course there are farming guilds out there, but not as many as people just playing through. This is an impasse if you disagree though, I'm not sure where we can get reliable statistics on the matter.
How about the number of people in this thread alone who have said they only farm a little at a time for skill money or when they want to acquire something more expensive than 1.5k/collectors?

And player run economies always have a lag time behind economy rebalances, and in that time the same dynamic of super rich vs. poor is re-established. You can't have a game in which people can put in varying amounts of time and effort and have everyone rewarded equally. Unless ANet plans to start redistributing gold out of rich players' Xunlai accounts...
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45   #346
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Well I just took my Invinsi-monk out for a spin and I don't see where they have removed all the anti-solo farming processes. There are still spell-breaking/life draining mobs and others they put there specifically to thwart this solo build. If the nightmares are still in UW then I think we are being suckered. Will find out when we have favor.

BTW I completely agree with the person who is sick and tired of all the nerfs/changes. Trying to balance PVP while screwing PVE or visa versa. For example the Necro nerf... My god that character has been in the game since the beginning and they wait till now to nerf soul reaping??? Either Anet is very slow or something else changed to prompt it. Either way, if it was a PVP issue, then just add an environmental effect to the PVP areas. I've been playing this game since the closed beta and over all not very happy with the way they like to nerf stuff and waste our time. Yes I've bought all 3 Campaigns but have been quite frustrated during the process. So I don't think I'll be going on to GW 2. Even though the games rocks... Anet has wasted to much of my valuable game time and to many of my builds...The frustration is just not worth it.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00   #347
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
You won't have as much gold, that's right. But gold will be worth more because of deflation.

Supply and demand does. If an item is priced higher than a fair number of people are willing to pay, it will drop in price.

Why would the gold deflation outstrip the cost drop? The cost is dropping only because of gold deflation. What is the compensating factor that will push it up to cost more? If anything I'd suggest it will drop further with so many HM farmers piling rares up.
These arguments might hold true if the Guild Wars economy were one composed solely of items whose values could freely fluctuate according to supply and demand. But the fact is that it's not. I hate sounding like a broken record, but people seem to keep ignoring the fact that the presence of items in game with fixed costs, be it armor at any level, salvage or ID kits, keys, bags, crafted weapons, or whatever, adds a whole new variable to the equation. These items have a set numerical exchange value for gold, and if the relative value of gold changes, so do they, and that greatly impacts the economy as a whole. You're predicting deflation, I'm predicting a period of rapid inflation, once again we're back to the two economists' views problem. Either way though is not good, because both inflation and deflation, if sustained for any extended period of time or if too rapid or in a large amount have a negative effect on an economy. The ideal situation for any economy is relative stability. Interestingly enough, stability also seems to be the ideal situation for the growth of an online game community.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat
The average player solo farms any significant amount? I guess alot of people in this thread believe that actually... I suppose only Anet has the statistics to know how absurd that thought is. The change would indeed be a waste if that were true, juggling the economy around to just bring a few % of sods up instead of pulling down a wealthier elite. I guess I only know for sure that players who regularly solo-farm for gold are an extremely small minority in my largeish PvE alliance, of course there are farming guilds out there, but not as many as people just playing through. This is an impasse if you disagree though, I'm not sure where we can get reliable statistics on the matter.
(boldface added for emphasis)

As best as I can tell this is or will be the true net effect of the loot changes, to increase the wealth of those who already have it while devaluing the currency available to those who do not. Anet claims their goals to be the opposite, but we will have to wait and see to determine the true case.
Last edited by blackbird71; Apr 23, 2007 at 02:04 AM // 02:04..
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30   #348
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
You won't have as much gold, that's right. But gold will be worth more because of deflation.
Except the only important expensive items (ie the non-vanity ones) will not deflate at all. Skills are still 1000g each and XP scrolls are still 200g each. The difference the update has made is that instead of having to farm for 1-2 hrs a week (about 10% of my play time) to get the funds for them, you now have to farm 8-16hrs (about 90% of my play time) a week.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51   #349
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I am also a casual farmer that just farms for what I want. this is now impossible or at the very least stupidly time consuming. Anet is now saying I have to become a leet farmer to earn any money, that I can't make a few plat here and there for what I need.

they gave us heroes which we have to kit out, with weapons and runes for them to be up to the task. We don't get their share of the cash to do it, they get it and then we kit them out. This is now going to be very hard if you have only one character, but if you have several... Oh well there goes the revenue to anet for new character slots, no one will be able to equip their current characters and heroes so they won't be buying more.


'gold drops are exempt from loot scaling' OK but have they reduced the gold item drops in normal mode then? I used to get a reasonable amount of gold drops soloing kryta including ettin pauldrons even with farming code up. I'm getting none now, even after many attempts, so I don't see this gold item exemption from the scaling at all. I just see a drop in gold itme drop rates.

I did hard mode with heroes and hechies, got some great drops first run, then they stopped, eight runs later I get more in normal mode. Every run after that got worse and worse... hang on thought farming code had been removed. Apparantly not in hard mode.

This update is not helping everyone make more money. People in groups make the same, casual farmers make a lot less, leet farmers go on as before, bots make a bit less but charge more on ebay as gold is now in demand more.

I have never bought gold and never will, but can see a move of a lot of people saying what the heck and just buying gold as they can no longer get it any other way.

Anet say they don't want to force people to farm to make money, now if you want skills, runes and equipment for yourself and heroes, Anet are FORCING you to learn advanced farming as it's now the only way to make money

thanks...
Last edited by Abarra; Apr 23, 2007 at 02:54 AM // 02:54..
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16   #350
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So let me get this straight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
ArenaNet's goal is to make it easier for normal players to make money, so that they can buy the things they need without having to purchase gold for cash, ...
This is the goal. Make it easier for "normal" players to make money.

This is the action towards that goal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Here's how we've made it easier for normal players to make money: we provided somewhat more gold and triple the number of uncommons and rares in Hard Mode, and we introduced entirely new types of loot.
So, by increasing the amount of gold and spiffy items in HARD MODE, you are making easier for "normal" or average or non-elite-mad-skillz players to make more money?

Just to be clear... By REDUCING the drops in NORMAL mode, and INCREASING the drops in HARD MODE, you are making it easier for NORMAL (non 1337 players) to make more money.


That's right folks, the chocolate rations have in fact been increased from 30 grams to 20 grams. The gods are indeed generous.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19   #351
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
I'll spell it out for you. B-O-T. Not farmers, botters.
Botters don't wear 15k armor. Or if they do, they don't wear it around in cities for new members to see and envy.
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When it comes to in-game loot, kills ARE the only metric. Planning builds and coordinating efforts facilitates more efficient killing, thereby the loot gain is increased proportionately, giving a direct, concrete reward for those efforts.
I'm not going to argue this point with you any longer, since it's clear that neither of us is going to change our opinions. Suffice it to say, I don't believe that kills are the only useful metric for success, and neither does ArenaNet, or else they wouldn't have included missions or quests in the game.
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If their actions were in line with their statements, that would be one thing. But introducing titles that are nothing BUT time and grind somewhat contradicts their grand design, does it not?
Not at all, because titles are 100% optional. They are purely cosmetic, apart from a few fringe cases like Lightbringer. Hardcore players can grind them forever, but casual players can still be competitive without titles.
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So have I. But the funny thing is, changing the loot system of a game after 3 million purchases and two years is a bit more drastic than just another "little thing" like nerfing or buffing skill damage amounts.
Among this forum, maybe. Among the majority of the GW population, it's doubtful. I haven't heard a single complaint in my alliance about the changes... most of them are too busy playing hard mode to care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbird71
From my point of view, Anet is the one who is now saying that these items should be more widely available. Farmers have not "given the appearance that farming is mandatory," rather Anet has made it such by placing these high cost fixed price items in the game and not providing alternative means of raising such funds.
There are plenty of alternative means to earn money, but they might not be instantly available to new players. As I've mentioned in other threads, myself and three of my friends have each been able to afford 15k armor without farming. I've made about 60k in the last week or so just by taking my ranger through Factions, since I'm not buying him many skills.
Quote:
As best as I can tell this is or will be the true net effect of the loot changes, to increase the wealth of those who already have it while devaluing the currency available to those who do not. Anet claims their goals to be the opposite, but we will have to wait and see to determine the true case.
In cases like this, I have to give ArenaNet the benefit of the doubt. They have access to all kinds of statistical data about the game that we don't. They most likely know exactly how much gold is flowing into the economy, through which characters it's coming, and what items are producing the most income. They know how much each player plays on average, the average amount of gold in each player's pocket, and what people are spending it on.

A developer with that kind of knowledge wouldn't make this kind of decision if they knew it would noticeably affect the majority of its player base. It's impossible to know for sure, but anecdotal evidence seems to show that many players are content with the modified loot system. I would guess that this forum has a much higher ratio of farmers to non-farmers than the game itself (as well as a higher ratio of people who read the update notes and even know about the change).
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35   #352
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Originally Posted by countesscorpula
So, by increasing the amount of gold and spiffy items in HARD MODE, you are making easier for "normal" or average or non-elite-mad-skillz players to make more money?

Just to be clear... By REDUCING the drops in NORMAL mode, and INCREASING the drops in HARD MODE, you are making it easier for NORMAL (non 1337 players) to make more money.
I may not be a PvE player (and I wonder why I even check this thread), but that is some of the soundest reasoning I have ever seen. Thank you for brightening my day; I grew tired of all the illogical arguments going on in every part of my world.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement (remember everyone, countess' post is sarcasm), and I must say I have a guilty pleasure for seeing devs caught in things like that.

Countess, you made my day, thank you.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40   #353
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
..[*]The only players able to attain the coolest items fell into a certain player type, the farmer.
..
Now the only player able to attain the coolest items would be the player who spends more time questing (the only type of accepted game know) in the box says something similar about skill and time but that is not how the game was originally designed to be played, it is for PvP. Doesn't matter if you are good and have more skill or a good build idea, the player who has more time will have it, you cannot focus time to obtain gold if you haven't much time. Maybe there was an inequity.

I see all reasons about this but I don't see why the scale drop should solve it. Why scale drop is the solution instead of farming for getting all these items?. And only we lose farming like an amused way of game (unless for the other part), forcing the players to play the area with henchies and heroes because is easy than going alone and has the same reward.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01   #354
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Originally Posted by countesscorpula
So let me get this straight...



This is the goal. Make it easier for "normal" players to make money.

This is the action towards that goal:



So, by increasing the amount of gold and spiffy items in HARD MODE, you are making easier for "normal" or average or non-elite-mad-skillz players to make more money?

Just to be clear... By REDUCING the drops in NORMAL mode, and INCREASING the drops in HARD MODE, you are making it easier for NORMAL (non 1337 players) to make more money.


That's right folks, the chocolate rations have in fact been increased from 30 grams to 20 grams. The gods are indeed generous.
If there were a poll, this would get my [edit] vote for most intelligent AND most hilarious post in this thread.

I'm sure someone will argue against reality being real, such as 8 = 1 and so on and so forth, but thanks for that post, good times.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33   #355
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Although I can quite see why some people would be pissed, Posts like "Greatest nerf ever!" have been on these forums ever since the sorrows furnace update. It seems that the low experienced players(they can now farm in groups) and high experienced players(they can farm hard mode) don't have anything to complain about, but the average solo farmer would see some income shortage.

Of course things aren't a disaster, I knew since prophecies that re-entering an area would decrease your chance of (good) loot. This feature has been removed. This actually means for the average solo farmer that they havent been f*cked that badly, since they can now farm all hour long and still get like 2 golds a farm trip.

My advise to all you people who are complaining their guts out:

Simply finish the chapters. Hard mode is farming paradise, and I'm sure you will like to farm in hard mode. As do I, obtaining plenty of golds per farm trip.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35   #356
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
If there were a poll, this would get my [edit] vote for most intelligent AND most hilarious post in this thread.

I'm sure someone will argue against reality being real, such as 8 = 1 and so on and so forth, but thanks for that post, good times.
Um? You're welcome?

I'm actually known for verbose posts, but when Gaile says things like that, it just makes it so much easier. I appreciate A-Nets attempts to kill bots and Professional Farmers (those who sell GWgold for RL cash). In fact, I frequently submit screen caps of people advertising such sales in game. That's how I do my part to cut back on botting/Pro farming. But I don't think this is a step in the right direction. I honestly think that all this does is make gold even harder for novice players to acquire.

And gold isn't just important for "vanity" items. Skills cost gold. Just capping all elites for one profession costs 35,000g. And all the non-elites, that's almost 90,000g right there. And that's just for your primary profession. What about secondaries? The strength of GW is the versatility of the characters, but they aren't too versatile when they can only afford to buy 15 skills. Sure many of the prophecies ones you get with quests, but not in the other two chapters. Skills over time spent playing, hunh? Well, it looks like new players have to quintuple the amount of time the play so they can afford to purchase the skills. (BTW, anyone paying more than 1k for an ordinary skill tome should look to see what Michiko has to offer first. She's not that hard to get to, you know.)

There I go being verbose again. Anyhoo, the current change only serves to widen the gap between rich and poor in GW. Those who already have money will have a much easier time making money out of hardmode (buying TH and Lucky titles). Those who don't already haves tonnes of money will invest big bucks in a lock pick, with dreams of Rare Treasure... only to find a crappy major inspiration rune. Rich people can afford to wade through the crap for the gems. Poor people cannot. So poor, average players just got a harder time acquiring skills to play the game competatively*.

I can see it now...

1337 player:So you want to come play with us in the land of Great Treasures?
n00bzor player: Gee that sounds like fun.
1337: Well, the bad guys in this place do lots of X so you need skills Y and Z.
n00bzor: I don't have skills Y and Z yet.
1337:Well it's a must in this place. The monsters are so hard and crafty, it's pretty much the only way. Just go buy it at the trainer, we'll wait.
n00bzor: but I was only able to get this 9-17 forked sword and this fettid carapace on my last pass through normal mode. Combined with my 250g that I had to split with the henchies, that leaves me with... 126g. I can't by 2 skills for 126g!
1337:Well, go farm for another 3 days and get back to us. Later
1337: GLF Player with YZ build for HM.
1337: GLF Player with YZ build for HM.
1337: GLF Player with YZ build for HM.
n00bzor: Why did I even buy this stupid game? Hey look, that guy is offering 100plat for $8. Cool. (logs on to website and whips out credit card)


Seriously, this wasn't a good move. At worst/best all it does is drive the RL price of GWgold up. And maybe not even that.

*meaning:be included for having the desired skills for a situation.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31   #357
Wilds Pathfinder
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Guild: Gwen Is [EVIL]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat
You won't have as much gold, that's right. But gold will be worth more because of deflation.

Why would the gold deflation outstrip the cost drop? The cost is dropping only because of gold deflation. What is the compensating factor that will push it up to cost more? If anything I'd suggest it will drop further with so many HM farmers piling rares up.
Skills will continue to cost 1 platinum. Max armor will continue to cost 1.5k -15k plus materials regardless of the value of gold. These factors will keep the price of gold up. These are not effected by "deflation".


Keys and lock-picks are the best bet at getting "sellable" items. Keys and lock picks are at a fixed price of 600g-1,500g. If only 1 in 5 drops from chests are sellable (a lot of gold and purple items really aren't that easily marketed - low demand runes - no max weapons), then the lowest feasable price for a "sellable" item is the cost of 5 keys = 3k normal mode chests or 7.5k HM chests. So these factors will keep merchandise demanding a high cost in gold.

Fairly simple really. Skills, armor, keys/lockpicks at fixed high prices will maintain the value of gold. Decreasing the amount of gold will only increase the number of people who can't have things. It will do nothing to lower the prices of items for sale. In fact, I would guess that going in the opposite direction would do much better to decrease the amount of people selling GWgold for cash. I've looked at a couple og GWgold sites today, and their primary selling point is that GWgold actually has value, and that it is hard to come by. This allows professional farmers to sell gold for higher RL prices, making it even more lucrative for them to engage in the practice of bot farming.

Taken from one such site:
Within the world of guild wars, gold is the standard currency (although, players often use other sorts for trading). Unlike many other games within the same genre, it has actual value. This is due to the rarity of gold...

Gold can be used to purchase a wide variety of items from both vendors and players. Although the trading value from player to player is harder to calculate. Nevertheless, the value of gold can be seen by what can be bought from non player characters (NPCs):

*Skills and skill charms
*Dyes (player driven economy, supplied by an NPC)
*Craftings, as each item costs a certain quantity of gold to create
*Weapons (including shields)

It then goes into a salespitch for why they are the ones to by gold from.

They didn't include armor but they should have. Sure you can get armor from collectors, but since the number of "white drops" have been scaled back, it now takes even more time to put that together. So much for the poor guy's armor/equipment.
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40   #358
Frost Gate Guardian
 
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Guild: League Of Friends [LOF]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleban
I don't feel I should get 8x what another player earns, I expect to get the rewards commensurate with my kill rate. And if I kill 8 times the amount of monsters another person does, I should get 8 times the loot, period. How can you argue this?
But now you do get rewards according to your kill rate.

I enjoy playing in a team. You enjoy playing solo. If we kill the same number of monsters, we will now get equivalent rewards (except for ectos, greens, etc, where you get more), since the other players/heroes/henchmen in my team take 7/8 the loot.

Don't think you are 8x better just because you can solo. The skills in GW were balanced for team play, not soloing. Therefore, some solo builds work much better than they should against certain types of enemies. It's fine if you want to exploit this imbalance for fun, just don't expect 8x rewards for it.
Last edited by StormLord; Apr 23, 2007 at 06:44 AM // 06:44..
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49   #359
Lion's Arch Merchant
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: Mo/R
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Whether or not this patch is right or wrong and whether the effect is good or not (I only come back occasionally for some laugh at crazy updates so I don't know for sure)...it still pisses off customers.

Whatever happened to "we support farming, just not professional farmer"?

Somehow this evolved into "we hate professional farmer, so we'll do whatever it takes as long as its still possible to farm decently", hence all those skill nerfs and aoe nerfs, that has all the "stop whining, you can still farm with other skills" posts associated with it.

And now its "solo farming is bad, along with bot"...

I dunno whether to call this "effective PR" or "being lied to"
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Old Apr 23, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00   #360
Furnace Stoker
 
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I would dare say that this update is for the long time GW player. You know, the people who have been playing for two years... and still plan on playing? This is finally an update that provides the old timers with some fun. To all the rest, go farm a little, go trade a little, or chest run and surely you will have enough to buy some armor.
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